Curse

CHannum · Mar 27, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Guild Wars CAN do without it, as the days before LS were better for everyone than now.

Take off the rose coloured glasses and stop drinking the nostalgia Kool-aid.

How could this possibly be true? Under LS there is no change to the farming of pretty much every single thing anybody might actually exchange money over. Further, since the drops were altered for hard and normal mode, it's even easier to farm these items than at any point pre-LS. The only thing altered by LS is the amount of gold that can potentially enter the economy, that's it.

If the potential influx of desireable items hasn't changed, and the fixed prices of "elite" vendor items hasn't changed, then the only two things that can possibly be altered via LS is the price that a seller can get in a player to player exchange and the rate that people can acquire special vendor goods. The first effect is called market adjustment: you get a relative increase of desireable goods compared to the liquid capital and prices drop even though purchasing power for actively playing people remains the same or even increases. The second effect I've already beaten beyond recognition, but I'll say it again anyhow: if you play the game, you still seem to be able to achieve these goals at a fair rate.

It was certainly a lot less time and effort getting a suit of elite armor in GW than a basic mount in WoW

Willow O Whisper · Mar 27, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

/bows 1234....100

MithranArkanere · Mar 27, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

1) I was before LS. The few times I farmed, most of the things that dropped where merchant fodder. When I farm now, I get golds, tomes and other rare items.
2) I'm not rich, I rarely have 100K in storage, no one needs more. And... well... my IQ prevents me from purchasing gold online. You have to be... not very bringht to do so.
3) There is no need to be a bot master to be an evil 55 monk. Probably a many of those that agree with LS removals have 55 monks. My monk exist only to heal, protect and smite, though.

Again, and again, and again. LS does not affect you unless you want to get cash by farming.
If you want to remove LS to get more cash by farming, then, you are wasting time asking for it.
LS is only an issue for solo farmers. "Solo" "farmers".
Farming is will not be stopped, but will not be enforced by Anet, either.

Asking for LS removal is like asking for an special User Interface for runners... the word is... NAIVE.

CHannum · Mar 27, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you had special status due to all the extra money you'd somehow made for Anet on their fixed cost game by having continued to play the same game for at least twelve months straight versus all those 2007 players that probably comprise more than 90% of the active player base. The sheer madness of thinking their opinions might matter.

MithranArkanere · Mar 27, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

CHannum

Join Date: Dec 2007

Young man, GWguru join date is different than GW join date.

Sypherious · Mar 27, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Young man, GWguru join date is different than GW join date.

I don't recall every typing that message.

Anyways, I have a question to everyone. Why would you not want LS removed? If you don't farm, it wont' effect you either way. So stop discouraging the removal.

Gli · Mar 27, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

You'd lose that bet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

You dare call us whiners? Oh, the irony.

Sypherious · Mar 27, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You dare call us whiners? Oh, the irony.

Maybe you misread. He's calling the 2007 people that want LS removed whiners. Not you.

MithranArkanere · Mar 27, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

I don't recall every typing that message.

Anyways, I have a question to everyone. Why would you not want LS removed? If you don't farm, it wont' effect you either way. So stop discouraging the removal.

XDDDD

The reason for not removing it is the same for adding it:
- Because people that farm get more cash that those that do not with much less effert, forcing those that do not farm to do so if they want to mach the prices set by an inflated 'economy'.

If 20% of the players get 100k per day and the rest 5k, there is something wrong there.

With LS, there is not much difference in wow much gold you get unless you dedicate to trade with the items, and by 'wasting time' trading, the extra gold is somehow compensated.

As I said many times and I repeat now:
Farming is not and never was meant to be the way to get cash. LS never removed the way to get cash from anyone. Since LS only affects farming, there is no reason to remove LS.

Gli · Mar 27, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Which is exactly why I posted it, so people know.

You're opposed to lootscaling, yet you want to let people know why it isn't such a big deal anyway? That's a grand gesture, well done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Maybe you misread. He's calling the 2007 people that want LS removed whiners. Not you.

I think you're the one misreading something.

Willow O Whisper · Mar 27, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Those quotes should link to the post in wich they were written.....

Sypherious · Mar 27, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You're opposed to lootscaling, yet you want to let people know why it isn't such a big deal anyway? That's a grand gesture, well done.

I think you're the one misreading something.

Who the hell are you to say that I'm opposed to lootscaling? I posted it purely to give everyone the info on what it doesn't effect. Don't even think about flaming me.

HawkofStorms · Mar 27, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Of course LS removal is winning the poll.

People are short sighted greedy ******s who think that getting 8 times as much money from solo farming will help them. Nobody thinks of long term consequences (just take any Poli Sci course).

MithranArkanere · Mar 27, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

More cash by farming would only grant two things:
- Reduction in value of crafter/collector stuff (even more).
- Increase in price for any item sold by players to players. Leaving anyone refusing to farm out of the equation at all.

It's not amusing when 4 people make a circle and try to keep everyone else out.
The 'punishment' for those was LS.

Act and consequence. People farm too much, LS is added.

Easy, uh?

CHannum · Mar 27, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Young man, GWguru join date is different than GW join date.

Regardless, I've made no secret as to my relativelnewness to GW (fall of 2007, so, yes, I am one of those whiners

).

However, that date hardly reflects my willingness to research games I'm playing, nor my lack of history with games of this nature, nor a fascination with analysing game design and theory going back to the early 1980s.

IF LS were something wholely unique to GW that I'd never encountered in all my days, I would agree I shouldn't be commenting. Since it's nothing new under the sun either to gaming or myself, I feel fully qualified to put in my two cents.

Sir Iceman · Mar 27, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I voted to remove the loot scaling. Like others, I voted this way just to stop the constant crying.

I've played this game since the betas and have never had trouble with lack of cash. Gold's drop, gold's don't drop, some days are good, some not. Almost like real life.

The free chests & buried treasure of GW:N wasn't enough to make some people happy.

I fully pimped out Koss with a max dead sword, perfect shield, better looking armor with runes etc.. and still he takes a cut from "MY" drops. Not fair! (^_^)

reetkever · Mar 27, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

XDDDD

The reason for not removing it is the same for adding it:
- Because people that farm get more cash that those that do not with much less effert, forcing those that do not farm to do so if they want to mach the prices set by an inflated 'economy'.

I beg to differ here. Farming takes quite alot of effort and patience. Farmers work for their cash, so it is only natural that they also get more money than someone that does less.

As for inflated economy, it's BS. Even before LS, prices were going down rapidly already, and the prices that were high had different reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If 20% of the players get 100k per day and the rest 5k, there is something wrong there.

How's that? People that work get more than people that sit around on a bench all day long. And 100K per day is practically impossible when farming trolls. Unless you farm them for like 10 hours in a row. You make it look like without LS, anyone could become insta-rich.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

With LS, there is not much difference in wow much gold you get unless you dedicate to trade with the items, and by 'wasting time' trading, the extra gold is somehow compensated.

The thing here is that no1 LIKES to trade items in the rotten trading system and market of today. There is basically NO demand for items at this moment, so sellers have an incredibly hard time selling their stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

As I said many times and I repeat now:
Farming is not and never was meant to be the way to get cash. LS never removed the way to get cash from anyone. Since LS only affects farming, there is no reason to remove LS.

Since stuff like FoW armours are in the game, and are obviously out of reach for anyone that just does the storyline, A-Net couldn't have predicted the game without people farming for cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

1) I was before LS. The few times I farmed, most of the things that dropped where merchant fodder. When I farm now, I get golds, tomes and other rare items.

It's called HM and it is unaffected by LS. Casual farmers do not farm HM and therefore feel the full effects of the LS. Merchant Fodder is the stuff we need more of. It takes too much time to sell anything to a player with the messed up trade system, and the fact that no1 has money to buy stuff doesn't make it easier. Merchant is your best friend if it comes to making cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

2) I'm not rich, I rarely have 100K in storage, no one needs more. And... well... my IQ prevents me from purchasing gold online. You have to be... not very bringht to do so.

100K is more than most people have these days. Alot people that want to truly enjoy this game DO need more. It's no secret that most people in Guild Wars have money issues. Just look in any outpost to see people complaining about money. If you don't need more than 100K, fine. Just don't speak for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Again, and again, and again. LS does not affect you unless you want to get cash by farming.

So why do you try to oppose the removal of it? If it doesn't affect you, you wouldn't matter if it got removed... If it DID affect you, it would be negative and you would be in favor of the removal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If you want to remove LS to get more cash by farming, then, you are wasting time asking for it.
LS is only an issue for solo farmers. "Solo" "farmers".
Farming is will not be stopped, but will not be enforced by Anet, either.

LS is an issue for any casual player, since basically everyone farmed back in the Griffon days. It's called casual farming. It's not for the purpose of getting rich, it's for the purpose of having a steady money income to help you with whatever you want to buy in this game. Sure, there are always some people who get lucky drops and don't feel the need to farm, but that doesn't mean that farming isn't needed or wanted by anyone.

MSecorsky · Mar 27, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

I am from the "old days". I like Loot-scaling. With the advent of LS and Hard Mode, I don't have to drive to get rich to still be able to afford not only things I need, but a good many things I simply want. The "epic" days you refer to were the days with the greatest separation of wealth between the average player and the hard core farmer ever. Things are floating along at a more even keel now. There are still the rich, of course, but the economy is now catering to the middle-class.

This is as it should be.

Gli · Mar 27, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Who the hell are you to say that I'm opposed to lootscaling?

Wait, what? You yourself signed yourself in 100% agreement with an anti-lootscaling post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

I posted it purely to give everyone the info on what it doesn't effect. Don't even think about flaming me.

Yeah, and right after you posted that, you post yourself to be in 100% agreement with someone's anti-lootscaling post. What's a guy to think of that?

MSecorsky · Mar 27, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

I don't recall every typing that message.

Anyways, I have a question to everyone. Why would you not want LS removed? If you don't farm, it wont' effect you either way. So stop discouraging the removal.

Simple. The influx of added gold will devalue gold, raising prices. This does affect me.